this is the way the world will end... this is the way the world will end... this is the way the world will end...

but on the other hand... I like The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress.
the KEY is Hidden in that book.

Will I Am

Ismael is great. Story of B was better. But they both have their flaws.

Wanderingangel where did you find that quote? It's brilliant!

Have any of you seen this site?

www.culturechange.org/e-lette...rld.html

No worries, neo-imperialism is based on the availability of cheap oil, which will be gone soon anyway...

Peace,
Ryan

Funy you should mention cultureral beakdown and geographical assotiations.

I have a 'Heavy Metal' style collaborative graphic novel (comic book) in mind about just such a thing.

The story is about after the breakdown of society (by whatever means), a group of collage student scavenge parts to assemble windmills to generate hydrogen and parts to build blimps to reestablish commerce and communication, working their way down Central America, building blimp stations along the way.

The intention is for the graphic novel to be a collaborative work of different writers; each writer taking an independent view of this story, focusing on any aspect of their choosing. Only the common basic story line would be shared between each writer.

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I agree, a "cooperacy" model based on interdependence must be the rule to ensuring everyone's participation in the decisions that will affect them. Working towards consensus-building collectively and co-operatively allows easy access to group synergy - a very critical resource in any neo-tribal scenario, not only for survival but for literally saving the planet.

Check out the original short stories that 'The Postman' was based off of, they've got a lot of ideas that didn't make it into the movie (cliche but true, the books are almost always better...)

it's going to be exponential post-katrina new orleans. where guys with guns force other people out of the better lands, and people with no force group together for strength and survival.

but that's all assuming that we haven't reached the tipping point that will wipe us all out.

Just rewatched Soylent Green tonight on DVD. It is a better movie than I remembered. EG Robinson's last movie, and Charlton Heston's best. E.O. Wilson said it - the distopia to fear is not one where we destroy the world, or even one where humans go extinct. The distopia to fear is one where we 'enjoy' a steadily declining quality of life, and our descendents never know what they missed; they have no idea how much better it used to be. That is the dark future that scares me.

In answer to your question Vixen I doubt that we are ready for it, but this shows humanities use of greed and need for power. We would rather sit in a line for $3 a gallon gas than to make use of public transportation or car pools. People would rather complain about the gas prices and how bad the world is. I find this a very unfortunate thing, I personally don't drive and even if Idid drive I would rather have the inconvenience of waiting for a bus or a ride than to sit in a line to burn more gas just to get... yup you guessed it more gas.

Though we are as a the Dalai Lama puts it compassionate in our nature, we are not conservative in our use of materials.

That may not make any sense to some, but I se it as a comparison of what is important to the vast majority of society.

what i would really like to see is people conciously being to recycle western civ into somethig more concious and sustianable... i think looking towards an post-apacolyptic future is some what self fullfilling. im not much of an optimist myself but i do know that physics is showing that our expectations seem to dictate potenial futures probablities... so with that... i see alot of fear driven motivation behind emerging neo-tribal culture focusing change based on fear instead of love and respect.
IMHO...
just butting in really...

"i see alot of fear driven motivation behind emerging neo-tribal culture focusing change based on fear instead of love and respect."

Little lightening bolt I see what you are saying and I can agree with some of it, but the problem that I see in the quoted statement above is this. Fear is a great ally and it can give you amazing focus, then again so can love and respect. However in this particular case the focused change built off of fear is very accurate because for me that is the biggest motivating factor for the change that must and will come. Fear of what our government is doing yeah they don't really care how much love or respect we have for others. The simple truth is they don't share that.

So will focus a change based solely on fear you bet your ass I will, because I'll be damned if I stand by and just allow it. If it were up to me I would make a complete ban on all fossil fuel / combustion engines and make it a law that everyone have access to an alternate fuel source or electric transportation.


Sorry I am done ranting now go back to your regular conversation.

I think people are in fear because the can now sense the truth of the human dilemma. We are good at playing nature's survival game, a little too good. Usually . For instance, when mammals achieve high population densities from gaining easy access to abundant resources (Humans and oil), mother nature has population controls like homosexuality, disease, inner-species conflict, etc. Most humans have tried to override these natural controls through adoption, medicine, religion, law, and rapid transfer of any resource over long distance (including information). But like all resources, oil and all the wonderful cheap easy resources it provides are going to become more and more expensive because our government didn't want to displease their corporate sponsors. Well, I hope we cut emissions 20% by 2050, because that really going to do a heap load of nothing. Telling people "We have built our population up to an extremely high density based on a resource that will probably run low very soon and very quickly" doesn't get you re-elected. How are we going to keep producing enough food is the real question.

I mean I hope that people on here at least realize that the solutions are all written in sci-fi book appropriately titled "Ecotopia". Decentralized energy and food production is key (google parabolic thermal solar, microhydro elecric, and potential energy storage) and I hope that people can organize their communities based on watersheds instead of dividing areas along rivers. Maybe we shouldn't be "producing" food at all anymore, maybe we should be working on restoring the natural herds. Our rulers think everyone should live like the people of the indus valley and the "holy" land We should all live like river people? Just saying screw the Babylon system isn't enough, because lots of people around the world are still in the mentality of "imitate american industrialism" because it will create a comfortable lifestyle (just like on TV). It is said that we have more available to us as average citizens than Kings and Queens did, but the elite rulers now have more than all of us combined. So how do we slow our own growth, while maintaining our sanity? Localize while trying to not have the rest of the world come crashing down on us?