Picking up on Lady Bird's post.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Story_of_B
The Story of B a 1996 novel written by Daniel Quinn and published by Bantam Publishing. It chronicles the teachings of a colleague of Ishmael, whose story is told in the book Ishmael, published in 1992.
The Story of B acts as a halfway point between the novels Ishmael and My Ishmael, also by Daniel Quinn. While referring to (but not based upon) the gorilla Ishmael, Quinn's novel takes readers along side Jared Osborne, a Laurentian priest. Jared is sent by his superiors to Europe to investigate an itinerant preacher who has been stirring up trouble. The preacher is known to his followers as "B", but his enemies say he's the "Antichrist". Pressed for a judgment, Osborne is driven to penetrate B's inner circle where he soon finds himself an anguished collaborator in the dismantling of his own religious foundations.
This contains excerpts from the book:
www.awok.org/great-forgetting/
With every audience and every individual, I have to begin by making them see that the cultural self-awareness we inherit from our parents and pass on to our children is squarely and solidly built on a Great Forgetting that occurred in our culture worldwide during the formative millennia of our civilization. What happened during those formative millennia of our civilization? What happened was that Neolithic farming communes turned into villages, villages turned into towns, and towns were gathered into kingdoms. Concomitant with these events were the development of division of labor along craft lines, the establishment of regional and interregional trade systems, and the emergence of commerce as a separate profession. What was being forgotten while all this was going on was the fact that there had been a time when none of it was going on - a time when human life was sustained by hunting and gathering rather than by animal husbandry and agriculture, a time when villages, towns, and kingdoms were undreamed of, a time when no one made a living as a potter or a basket maker or a metalworker, a time when trade was an informal and occasional thing, a time when commerce was unimaginable as a means of livelihood...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Story_of_B
The Story of B a 1996 novel written by Daniel Quinn and published by Bantam Publishing. It chronicles the teachings of a colleague of Ishmael, whose story is told in the book Ishmael, published in 1992.
The Story of B acts as a halfway point between the novels Ishmael and My Ishmael, also by Daniel Quinn. While referring to (but not based upon) the gorilla Ishmael, Quinn's novel takes readers along side Jared Osborne, a Laurentian priest. Jared is sent by his superiors to Europe to investigate an itinerant preacher who has been stirring up trouble. The preacher is known to his followers as "B", but his enemies say he's the "Antichrist". Pressed for a judgment, Osborne is driven to penetrate B's inner circle where he soon finds himself an anguished collaborator in the dismantling of his own religious foundations.
This contains excerpts from the book:
www.awok.org/great-forgetting/
With every audience and every individual, I have to begin by making them see that the cultural self-awareness we inherit from our parents and pass on to our children is squarely and solidly built on a Great Forgetting that occurred in our culture worldwide during the formative millennia of our civilization. What happened during those formative millennia of our civilization? What happened was that Neolithic farming communes turned into villages, villages turned into towns, and towns were gathered into kingdoms. Concomitant with these events were the development of division of labor along craft lines, the establishment of regional and interregional trade systems, and the emergence of commerce as a separate profession. What was being forgotten while all this was going on was the fact that there had been a time when none of it was going on - a time when human life was sustained by hunting and gathering rather than by animal husbandry and agriculture, a time when villages, towns, and kingdoms were undreamed of, a time when no one made a living as a potter or a basket maker or a metalworker, a time when trade was an informal and occasional thing, a time when commerce was unimaginable as a means of livelihood...
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Re: The Great Forgetting
Thu, January 3, 2008 - 10:07 PM"the development of division of labor along craft lines, the establishment of regional and interregional trade systems, and the emergence of commerce as a separate profession."
In the book 'The Unsettling of America' Wendell Berry talks in great detail about this subject of specialization (although he doesn't explore how far back that system goes, he is pretty much comparing the U.S. with Old Europe), which has the illusion of putting people who are the best at a certain trade in charge of that trade specifically, without the distractions of other things, but of course actually makes people so specialized in their one job that they don't know how to do anything else, and consequently are dependent on all the other specialists to do each little thing for them.
Entertain them (television), feed them (packaged or pre-prepared food) educate them, educate their children, take care fo their health, clan their homes and so on.
For a community to be formed out of members of the Taker or modernized societies, the group would need individuals who specialize in all the needs of the group, or town. Each town must have a doctor, a restaurant, a school...and so on.
A community of Leaver, indigenous or orginal people just needs a reasonable amount of people, enough so the labour is 'made light by enough hands' but not so many that it exceeds it's 'carrying capacity' (the level of population an environment can safely support before disease, food shortages, battles and collapse)
War, greed and disease are not inherint aspects of humanity, they come from centuries of genetic conditioning that there is not enough resources for the population of the community, so people hold onto what they can to survive. A situation which comes from actually having too high a population for the resources available, not the other way around!
And so, in the Taker society, there is this feeling of a constant need for expansion and getting more and hoarding, more land, more space, more resources, always expanding. Sometimes ahead of their own population expansion, sometimes behind, but always fueled by it. Though of course both the expansion of the population and need for resources, and expansion of resources in preparation for the growing population fuel eachother in a vicous cycle.
Also i like your point about how trade and 'imports' has existed for a long time, but was not necessary for life. Everything people need was and is still in the immediate environment, but some special things like foods from far away could be a treat, or tools or clothing that would last.
These days, most food eaten in the states is imported from somewhere far away. Even if it is 'grown in america', the U.S. is a big empire posessing a lot of land, and is ever growing! -
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Re: The Great Forgetting
Thu, January 3, 2008 - 11:34 PMI am curious though; are there any folk out there who through strange chances managed, in their childhood, to obliviously slip through loopholes in the social structure. Allowing them to be free or nearly so from the influence of the Great Forgetting, the cultural myths, the words of 'mother culture' as Daniel Quinn calls it, and tap into their ancestral memories at very early formative years?
I have such a situation, my parents attempted to raise me in a different way, but still with the mentality of the Takers in many respects, and so they did not plan for me to end up as different from their ancestors as i did. They just wanted me to end up like them.
However, this backfired on them, because they raised me in the woods without going to school, and consequently rather than listening to what they had to say about our relationship to the world as humans, i listened to the trees and other beings that were far more populous and influential than the few (in fact 4) adult figures in my life.
They did try to teach me their beliefs, and some got through to me, but mostly they wanted to keep me sheltered and innocent (very bad idea by the way, any parents out there thinking about doing this, it makes it VERY hard and dangerous to adapt to society as adults) until an age they considered appropriate for me to learn certain things.
By then the environment had shaped my brain in such a way that i could feel deeply that a lot of what they were saying was completely wrong.
By the time they tried to teach me about the 'good' aspects of the american government for example, i had already lived for several years with the fear and threat of our home being raided in drug searches, because we lived in a national forest where a lot of people grew an manufactured various drugs. (and medicinal sacred plants being used as drugs) The black helicopters and occasional interrogations about various garden vegetables was my big exposure and discovery of a 'government', coming at a time when i had just recently realized i lived in a country, rather than just on the land. I knew about countries, i though there were 5 of them, and the U.S. was not one, and i didn't live in any of them!
I don't think my brain is inherently any different than any other human, by my parents intent was supposed to come out as something different, but because of bad planning, i happened to get lucky.
Does this happen sometimes among the vast quantity of people in the modernized societies? Anyone with similar experiences? What does that make us? I can't call myself a Leaver in good conscience, nor am a Taker.
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